Dr Haisook’s Brain Grooves

Corruption In Egypt’s Medical Schools — Part 1

Posted in Articles, Corruption, Favorite Posts, My Life by drhaisook on March 21, 2006

I’ve been learning at one of the big public universities in Egypt for like 3 years now (medical school), and sadly, all what I’ve been seeing is corruption. Let’s put these in points to be clear — “10″ is enough for now:

  1. The number of students in a year (i.e course or grade) is not less than 800! Need I say more?! How would such a huge quantity leave any chance for serious or useful learning? All of these are to attend lectures in one or 2 lecture rooms! Imagine how communication would be between the lecturer and the students, esp. those at the rear.
  2. Per grade, there are 12 practical sections (labs). i.e. The 800 students (for instance) will be divided upon 12 sections making around 66 students per section! Still a very big number, especially for a pure practical education like medical one.
  3. In the ‘practical’ sections, everything is being taken except practical stuff! Yes. They give you academical stuff that anyone could get from a book, or from attending the lectures. So why would students attend them? They are obligated to do so. Why? cause your name is written down every section you attend, and if you had many absences at the end of the year, you’d fail!
  4. More than half of the students go to those known as private tutors for a relatively pricy costs. Poor students cannot go to those, for sure. And guess what.. who are those private tutors? They are the very academic doctors at the school!!
  5. The labs are very much lacking equipments and essentials. Sometimes you can’t find a spare microscope for yourself. One of the rooms I used to attend at in my first year had no working ceiling lamps.
  6. We have to buy books written by the education staff in school in order to not be put in their BlackList. Once you buy the books, you write down your signature (or name). This means you’re saved. What if you don’t need those book? What if they suck and you just don’t want them? What if you are poor and can’t afford their price?! There many alternatives that are much better than such books (which are copied from international sources, by the way).
  7. The practical books are being shared by students for copying/pasting purposes if you know what I mean. You get a friend’s book, and just copy what’s in it in yours. This is how practical education goes here.
  8. The Anatomy and Pathology museums simply suck. The specimens are like 50 years old. You just can’t see anything. I remember one day I was there looking for the “Heart”. After long searching, a friend of mine directed me to a brown glob. When I asked him what it is, he simply said “It’s the heart!”.
  9. There is nothing as MCQ sort of exams in our school (and all universities). After more than 50 years of international usage of that type, they’re still reluctant as to use it or not. Heck! They still use the ‘write-what-you-know-in-not-less-than-3-pages’ strategy.
  10. In the library, you can’t just walk around freely between books and check what you want to read easily. There are guys standing by the book shelves. You have to know the title of the book you want. You can’t browse it before taking it. Once the guy get a book out of the shelf, it’s the one you are to borrow. No compromises. Of course you have to sign a borrowing policy,…etc too….

Thanks for reading!
You May Also Read Part 2

31 Responses

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  1. shaimaa said, on April 30, 2006 at 1:09 am

    i studied dentistry in Egypt, all i can say is… you are absolutely right! there are even more types of corruption than what you mentioned.. you just mentioned the easy points!

  2. drhaisook said, on April 30, 2006 at 12:07 pm

    Well, Shaimaa… I haven’t finished my course yet. I’m still in the midway, but I’m sure by the time I finish this mess, there would be more hundreds of points! I agree, though, that there are more points than those I’ve mentioned, but I’ve tried to make it clear to non-Egyptian persons, esp. Western people, who are the main users of the Internet.

    And thanks for leaving a msg!

  3. [...] Well, I’ve already written the first part, and – encouraged by a citizen of my country – I thought I’d write more parts. Yeah… more to come. Don’t be surprised. There is a lot of corruption here in Egypt, in all the fields you’d imagine. [...]

  4. [...] Click for Part 1, and Part 2. [...]

  5. Manar said, on November 19, 2006 at 3:03 am

    wow…i’ve always known that public education in Egypt is nothing like that of the U.S. but i had no idea that it was this bad!?! So in your personal opinion, are you NOT suggesting furthering education in Egypt? Is this a realistic portrayal of just public universities (even the so-called “we’re famous for our intenive medical programs and scientific research”) or are none of the universities devoid of such corruption?

  6. drhaisook said, on November 20, 2006 at 2:07 pm

    wow…i’ve always known that public education in Egypt is nothing like that of the U.S. but i had no idea that it was this bad!?!

    Sadly, it is.

    So in your personal opinion, are you NOT suggesting furthering education in Egypt?

    No, of course I don’t suggest such thing unless you’re obligated just like myself.

    Is this a realistic portrayal of just public universities (even the so-called “we’re famous for our intenive medical programs and scientific research”) or are none of the universities devoid of such corruption?

    I’ve been studying medicine in one of the biggest medical schools in Egypt, and I’ve based my articles on it. I have no direct experience in other schools, but from what I hear and see around me, I can tell the case is not better, if not worse.

    Do you study medicine? If so, where, I wonder…?

  7. bes said, on December 8, 2006 at 2:33 am

    cheer up. thats the way it is in almost all the not so highly developed countries. where is come from that stuff was happening since high school

  8. Tarek Omar said, on February 29, 2008 at 5:14 am

    I agree completely with you about corruption in the educational process in egypt.

  9. KONO said, on May 24, 2008 at 9:17 pm

    hi i’ll try to be brief
    1- my class was 180
    2- so number per round (or section) when we were devided for practical courses was reasonable.
    3- we were taking practical stuff and as for me i was even making the dissection in the anatomy lab.
    4-i didn’t take private tutors except for like 1 or 2 courses during the whole 6.5 years of the medical shool.
    5-labs had the equipments.
    6- i was buying the books that i only needed
    7-practical books like that of anatomy or histology were for drawings and yes we were copying the drawings
    8-Anatomy and pathology labs were good.
    9-yes no MCQs thing and that makes our exams in medical school harder and needing more hard study and when i came for the MCQs in USMLE it was easier for me to study for it cuz i used for the more difficult study of “give short account on”
    10-i was walking freely in library and photocoyin wtever i wanted and in any library u have to sign somethin to borrow..nothin wron with that!

    by the way my dad is not even a doctor and i was ranked 2nd in my class… finished USMLE 94/99/pass/85 and got residency in USA (didn’t do any rotations or observership or clerckships in USA…and all my study was in public schools and public university)
    of course everything is not 100% but u have to do ur best and get use from what is available…you have the time you have the books you have the internet and try to cover any defect in the college
    work hard to get wt u want inspite of just complaining…
    be a little bit optimistic
    and remember that education in medical college is free….
    GL for all

  10. drhaisook said, on May 24, 2008 at 11:40 pm

    Hey KONO,

    Seems like either you were in a better medical faculty or you were very optimistic. All people (including those who replied here before you) agree on how corrupt and terrible medical education in Egypt is, and your opinion won’t change this fact. I don’t mean to offense you.

    May be the only right point you mentioned is that we shouldn’t complain because it’s medical education in Egypt is free, but then again you’re wrong about the ‘no-complain’ bit, because we HAVE TO speak out and complain, and the internet is the ideal way for this. And we’re not just complaining as you say. We’re working hard at the same time, not for our medical college scores because they worth nothing, but for ourselves as physicians and for the more divine goal known as the USMLE.

    Anyway, welcome in my blog!

  11. Y.S. said, on May 25, 2008 at 4:08 am

    For God’s sake, what is this?
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bS5WkNCWejg
    Anatomy Lab !!! what a joke!

  12. Y.S. said, on May 25, 2008 at 4:19 am

    Again, how are the guys in the back supposed to see anything?

  13. Y.S. said, on May 25, 2008 at 4:45 am

    Now lets see what BBC has to say about Egyptian universities: (In Arabic)
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/arabic/middle_east_news/newsid_7310000/7310150.stm

  14. Y.S. said, on May 25, 2008 at 4:54 am

    Surgery class:

  15. drhaisook said, on May 25, 2008 at 12:31 pm

    Hey Y.S. – oh yeah, I remember those times! Brings back sad memories :(

    How am I supposed to compete for high scores when I can’t even ’see’ what I’ll be tested on? Not only that, but the mother f***ers would also switch the specimens for totally different ones at the exam! But mind you, I’m in the medical faculty universally known as the toughest in Egypt. I guess you may know it now.

    Where is KONO to check these out?! I knew people like him who’re just ’study-machines’. They’re emotionless and have no sense of criticism. It could be an advantage though. They don’t feel any pain and get good grades. What more does one need?

    But for me, no, I’ll not stop complaining until they change or at least close down these goddamn med schools!

  16. KONO said, on May 25, 2008 at 4:16 pm

    thanks for the courteous analysis of my personality!
    wish you good luck and success in your life….

  17. drhaisook said, on May 25, 2008 at 5:13 pm

    KONO, no offense was intended. It is just my opinion. I suppose you believe in freedom of speech.
    I also wish you good luck in your career.

  18. Y.S. said, on June 6, 2008 at 5:56 am

    This is an old post that I read sometime ago that I thought you might find interesting: (in Arabic)

    http://bayto4.blogspot.com/2005/08/blog-post_11.html

    There are two other parts.

  19. Y.S. said, on June 6, 2008 at 6:39 am

    An article about internship in Egypt (in Arabic)

    Part one:
    http://waref.blogspot.com/2006/01/1.html

  20. drhaisook said, on June 6, 2008 at 2:46 pm

    Thanks for the links, Y.S. — Very truthful articles indeed. I’m really sad about the situation here.

  21. waref_ said, on June 10, 2008 at 4:07 am

    What I said in my blog is a result or an association to what you said.. and this must be changed to get a quality for learn-improvement, I agree with you

  22. fathi said, on December 6, 2008 at 8:45 pm

    is alexandria university for international programme is good?

  23. fathi said, on December 6, 2008 at 8:47 pm

    i mean the international undergraduate medical programme (iump)..

  24. drhaisook said, on December 6, 2008 at 10:04 pm

    I’m afraid I have no information about this program, fathi. :(

  25. abdullah said, on March 2, 2009 at 10:56 pm

    i think some of your point is not so relevant but some of them is quite right..can i know which university that u mention in the article please.i am one of the international students in egypt

  26. drhaisook said, on March 2, 2009 at 11:02 pm

    It doesn’t matter what university I’m in, abdullah. They’re all the same (the public ones).
    Please read the rest of this series, and tell me what you think.

    http://drhaisook.wordpress.com/2006/05/01/corruption-in-egypts-medical-schools-part-2/
    http://drhaisook.wordpress.com/2006/05/09/corruption-in-egypts-medical-schools-part-3/
    http://drhaisook.wordpress.com/2008/11/26/corruption-in-egypts-medical-schools-part-4/

  27. mohammad said, on March 3, 2009 at 12:27 am

    u should mention which university do u mean
    so people can do further investigation for better improvement regarding this particular university..

    i am one of the students in medical school,egypt under IUMP system..
    and so far i found this system is really good as we will discuss with the person in charge for any problems.

    and 1 more thing,i agree with KONO…we should stop complaining and try our best to face any obstacles..if u dont want any difficulty in ur s2dies..just quit from s2dying medicine and study another easier courses instead.

    good luck..

    • drhaisook said, on March 3, 2009 at 10:43 am

      Hi mohammad,

      It seems you did not understand my point, or may be it’s a bit too complicated for you to understand, so I’ll try to explain it.

      I didn’t mention which university I go to because I speak for Medicine in Egypt as a whole. From what I’ve heard from friends and from students on the internet, other universities are not better. And please remember I talk only about PUBLIC medical schools, that teach native Egyptians. It seems you and abdullah want to know which university I’m talking about just to avoid it!

      Private medical schools and special programs like IUMP are potentially better of course because the number of students is smaller and it’s a paid service after all. You have the privilege to complain to the person in charge, but we do not. We can only complain on blogs like this one.

      As to your remark about how we should stop complaining, I must say I disagree. First of all, I’m not complaining; I’m criticizing. I want medical education in Egypt to be better. I want Egyptian physicians to be more competent. I want my country to be better and stronger. This is my country, and as much as I dislike many things in it, I do care about it, and do wish that it becomes better. I have no means of conveying my care and attention about my country except criticizing it. Yes, you heard it right. Criticism is not an offense. It’s not hatred either. It’s a way by which humans and systems become better. How can we repair our defects if first we do not list them down? That’s simply what I’m doing. My own belief is that criticizing is a part of living, and I do not think it’s possible for life to continue without criticizing.

      While doing this, I’m also trying my best to face any obstacles. No contradictions here. I’m not just complaining and crying. And I didn’t mention a word about the difficulty of studying. I’m a hard-working student at heart, and I had been the first on my class throughout my education. The difficulties I’ve faced here when I came to Egypt in my medical school is NOT related to studying. It’s simply related to a corrupt unorganized system. An atrocious system in which the brilliant are lost. A horrific system which produces ill-experienced so-called doctors who bring the practice of Medicine to shame, and bring our country to defeat.

      People have different perceptions of things. May be KONO did not notice the negatives in his medical school. May be he noticed them, but he didn’t care. May be he cared, but he didn’t try to express his views, and that’s the most dangerous mistake humans ever make, in my opinion. KONO left the country and is probably working as a physician in the U.S. now. His case reminds of a man who is walking down the street, and suddenly notices a big hole right in front of him. He moves aside at the last moment, and thankful, he simply continues his walk. A minute afterwards, another man comes up jogging. He does not see the hole, and he falls down in it.

      Now couldn’t the first man put a sign in front of the hole to warn people about it? or couldn’t he call the police or whoever is responsible for that? At the very least, couldn’t he go home and blog about a big hole in the middle of the street and how could it be left that way? He could. But he didn’t do it. Now is that what you think is right?

      May be you do not see the negatives because you’re in a better system. May be because it’s not your country after all. May be you’re just thankful you got accepted here. May be you do not believe in criticism. I do not know. It’s up to you. What I know is that I MUST criticize my medical school, my country, my family, and myself. That way, I believe, we all will become better.

      And by the way, it’s not only me who’s criticizing medical education in Egypt. Professional journalists are too. Check this post (We’re playing doctors!).

      Good luck.

  28. mohammad said, on March 3, 2009 at 5:59 pm

    hello..i do understand what u wrote here bt i cant 100% trust all the things without any proof ..dat’s why i wanna know which university u r in..so,i can ask any of my friends who s2dy in the same university regarding all the stuffs that u wrote here..

    i do not know why you dont want to mention the university u r in..either because u r lying about some or most of the things or u r scared as ur identity might be known..

    apart from that,u told me..some of the points dat u wrote down are based on what u heard from ur friends or internet..i wanna ask u one thing??do all the things u heard/read are reliable enough and can be trusted without any proof…

    those things are like gossips..maybe they r true or maybe not
    furthermore,when gossip move from person 2 person,it’s getting bigger and bigger…
    then finally when u heard them,u directly wrote them down without any thoughts dat the thing u r writing down maybe right or maybe wrong…

    next,some of my seniors and friends are under egyptians system as well..and whenever i ask them about the system,they told me nothing is going wrong with the system except for the crowded issue and the syllabus…

    lastly,i made a conclusion in your case..
    either the system that u said is wrong or something is going wrong with you…

    have a good day…

    • drhaisook said, on March 3, 2009 at 6:31 pm

      I don’t want to go into an unnecessary conversation. Why the hell would I lie? And most of what I’ve said is based on my own experience. Haven’t you noticed that? I’ve been through every single point in this article. I’ve seen that brown globs with my own two eyes! Those articles conclude my 6-year experience.

      Most of what I’m criticizing is also very common with students. I don’t know how far your capabilities of discovering content on the internet are, but try searching for any unofficial forum for medical schools in Egypt. Ain-Shams, Zagazeeg, Kena, Mansoura,.. you name it. You’ll find many students bothered by the same points I’ve mentioned.

      I don’t want to mention the name of my university because it’s irrelevant! I want to give my articles a universal impact, because I know it’s the same in all med schools in Egypt. My university is even one of the better ones in the country. You do not seem to understand journalism.

      You also seem to not read my comments carefully or do not understand to some extent because by saying “and whenever i ask them about the system,they told me nothing is going wrong with the system except for the crowded issue and the syllabus…” you prove you did not get my point about people NOT trying to say the truth. Egyptians, unfortunately, have become used to being negative and silent. They think everything is OK, and that’s why we’re going backwards.

      And you end your comment with an extremely brilliant conclusion: “either the system that u said is wrong or something is going wrong with you…” which does not even make sense. Yes, the system is wrong. In fact, all systems in Egypt are wrong. Oh my God. Don’t you read newspapers? You’re living in a goddamn corrupt country. Please, for god’s sake, WAKE UP! Egypt ranks 105 among 179 countries in the Corruption Perceptions Index (CPI). That’s terrible.
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_Corruption_Perceptions_Index

      I feel I’m wasting my time replying to you, so this will be my last reply to you. You seem to be narrow-minded, shallow-thinking, and uneducated. You blindly reject the idea that medical schools in Egypt is not good and needs improvement, although you can see many comments that agree with me about that here! Y.S., the commentator above, is also an international student in a private med school in Egypt, and he sees medical education in Egypt inefficient.

      Want me to tell you, “Hey man, everything is OK, and we’re on the top!”? Alright, here you go: “Hey man, everything is OK, and we’re on the top!”. Now go celebrate.

      So, please stop reading my articles if you don’t like them, and stop wasting my time.

  29. mohammad said, on March 3, 2009 at 10:06 pm

    erm…relax doctor…
    don’t get emotional in our conversation..
    i suppose u believe in freedom of speech..
    (the same thing u said 2 kono)

    by the way,nice having conversation with u
    and 1 more thing,thank you very much for your compliment..

    may God bless you..


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